Curse

Tenebrae · Oct 22, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

So banning them is unnecessary. Thanks for the support!

And nerfing its AI also , /notsigned.

MagmaRed · Oct 22, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Nechrond.... have you been reading the posts in this topic? You presented an idea. People have responded to that idea with their opinion about it. How many people have thought the idea was good, or even needed small changes? I have seen no response that said this would be good on any level.

Either find a way to change your idea based on what has been said, or just give up. Currently there is no support. Find out why there is no support for your idea and change it.... or realize the idea was bad.

Nechrond · Oct 22, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Nechrond.... have you been reading the posts in this topic? You presented an idea. People have responded to that idea with their opinion about it. How many people have thought the idea was good, or even needed small changes? I have seen no response that said this would be good on any level.

Either find a way to change your idea based on what has been said, or just give up. Currently there is no support. Find out why there is no support for your idea and change it.... or realize the idea was bad.

Have you been reading the posts in this topic? Am I supposed to listen to people who yell stuff like "OMG I READ 4 WORDS OF UR POST AND IT SUXXX0RZ!!! NOTSIGNED"?
I'll listen to people who motivate their opinion. As long as they can't, I'll assume they're disagreeing with me because they're all idiots. Especially the ones who are violently disagreeing with something that they stupidly misinterpreted my post to mean - and sadly, that's the majority.

For your information, I did already come up with alternatives. Just read the thread. If, while searching for that post, you discover even ONE person who posted a good, logical REASON to ban heroes from PvP, let me know.

DISCLAIMER: Other than "AI doesn't belong in PvP". That one's not valid because the player base is just too small.

Kattar · Oct 22, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

This is how Sardelac works, Nechrond. If you plan on hanging around until everyone agrees with you and responding to all those that don't, I'd go find a comfy chair.

MagmaRed · Oct 22, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

You posted your original idea. Outside of that, the only change you have made that I see is to make the change in PvP only. Yet your idea was that Mesmers are what need to be nerfed, when there are several other hero options that are just as broken.

PvP = PLAYER versus PLAYER. Tell me why a PvP game should make use of NPCs (Non Player Characters). This is why most people feel heroes should be removed from PvP completely. They have AI that allows them to do things a human can't, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, they are not human, not players.

If you can't find people to play PvP with, you are doing something wrong. I live in Americ, but I am in a guild with people in Europe and Australia. I have friends from Asia that play as well. If there aren't people on where you live, when you play, move to a new area. You can freely switch between America, Europe, Asia, Internation, etc. districts. There are always people on in one of those locations. If you want to play with NPCs, move to PvE or find an offline game.

The reason most of the people said they stopped reading is because there is no reason to change things other than the removal of heroes. Most people do not want heroes, or even hench, in PvP areas. Suggesting changes won't fix the problem we see. Suggesting the removal does, as the problem isn't their AI, its their nature. If they were hench controlled by Anet staff, not AI, people wouldn't care, and would use them more possibly... depending on the skill bars. But Anet obviously can't afford to pay someone to sit and play a game with other people.... and it would take a LOT of people.

Basically, nobody who has posted likes your idea. You haven't made changes to it other than making it PvP only. Yet the inherent problem of why people don't like your idea has not been addressed by you yet. Find a way to modify your idea in a way that will make people want to use heroes/hench in PvP and you may get some support.

But since I know you won't, just give up. The idea isn't liked, and you can't change that without changing us. Good luck on doing that.

Reverend Dr · Oct 22, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Run Skype instead of Vent. No more lag, if you have a decent machine.

Are you a moron? Skype has more lag than vent. Lag is ISP and region based not bloody CPU based.

~ Dan ~ · Oct 22, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

.. I'll assume they're disagreeing with me because they're all idiots.

Ah I see. So because everyone disagrees with your shit idea, they're idiots. Okay then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

If, while searching for that post, you discover even ONE person who posted a good, logical REASON to ban heroes from PvP, let me know.

So the following reason: "We don't want AI in Player versus Player" is not logical?

seraphite86 · Oct 23, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Have you been reading the posts in this topic? As long as they can't, I'll assume they're disagreeing with me because they're all idiots. Especially the ones who are violently disagreeing with something that they stupidly misinterpreted my post to mean - and sadly, that's the majority.

For your information, I did already come up with alternatives. Just read the thread. If, while searching for that post, you discover even ONE person who posted a good, logical REASON to ban heroes from PvP, let me know.

Okay, this is getting silly. Nechrond, don't you think calling someone an idiot for disagreeing with you is a bit rude? Not only that MagmaRed has made a similar post count as you have. Is this topic still about your pitch to the community or the posts others made?

Since when is an opinion wrong? We had the choice to agree or disagree with your initial idea and we threw it out. Not only that but your alternatives were even worse than the original suggestions. Hero PvP variants of problematic skills? You are barking mad?

There is no need for anyone to make a "good, logical REASON to ban heroes from PvP" because not one has agreed with your pitch. Revamp your suggestion from scratch with a more practical approach or drop this thread entirely.

Nechrond · Oct 23, 2009, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Are you a moron? Skype has more lag than vent. Lag is ISP and region based not bloody CPU based.

Just speaking from personal experience here. I get no lags on Skype. I must say I've only had people from Europe on Skype, but the distance Netherlands-Norway should be an adequate test. Skype handles priority differently than most other voice chat systems, which is why it can cause lag on slow machines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

So the following reason: "We don't want AI in Player versus Player" is not logical?

If you had managed to work your way to the end of my post, you'd have been able to read what I said about that. See now why I'm calling people idiots?

Quote:

Originally Posted by seraphite86

Okay, this is getting silly. Nechrond, don't you think calling someone an idiot for disagreeing with you is a bit rude? Not only that MagmaRed has made a similar post count as you have. Is this topic still about your pitch to the community or the posts others made?

I'm not calling them an idiot for disagreeing with me. Only for not being able to motivate their opinions. If a person can't motivate their opinion, that's either because the opinion sucks, or because the person is an idiot.

Quote:

Since when is an opinion wrong? We had the choice to agree or disagree with your initial idea and we threw it out. Not only that but your alternatives were even worse than the original suggestions. Hero PvP variants of problematic skills? You are barking mad?

Woof woof. That's what people all said when skills were split between PvE and PvP, too. That turned out to be a surprisingly good solution, too. Woof woof.

seraphite86 · Oct 23, 2009, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Woof woof. That's what people all said when skills were split between PvE and PvP, too. That turned out to be a surprisingly good solution, too. Woof woof.

I loved the idea for PvP/PvE skill splits for years before it was implemented. Considering the fact that this thread is about hero AI I never did once mention such things. Naturally PvP/PvE skills are divided for obvious reasons but to go one step further with your particular suggestion for heroes is silly. Yes it would force players to stray away from hero use but the decision has already been made to remove hero regardless of how you feel about it. But by all means feel free to make another thread about boycotting this move if you like.

I admire that you are forthright in your view but I cannot give this thread any consideration if there is no neutrality. Unless you fix your pitch we're simply going to /notsign.

And "Woof woof?" I thought this was a discussion.

Nechrond · Oct 23, 2009, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by seraphite86

I loved the idea for PvP/PvE skill splits for years before it was implemented. Considering the fact that this thread is about hero AI I never did once mention such things. Naturally PvP/PvE skills are divided for obvious reasons but to go one step further with your particular suggestion for heroes is silly.

You were the one to like THAT idea back when everyone else thought it was dumb. I'm the one to like THIS idea now when everyone else still thinks it's dumb. I might be proven right in the end, just like you were, see?

Quote:

Yes it would force players to stray away from hero use but the decision has already been made to remove hero regardless of how you feel about it. But by all means feel free to make another thread about boycotting this move if you like.

It wouldn't force them to stray away from hero use, it would merely force them to use fair heroes, not heroes that are better at their job than real players. This would also give human players who love those jobs a better position.

Quote:

I admire that you are forthright in your view but I cannot give this thread any consideration if there is no neutrality. Unless you fix your pitch we're simply going to /notsign.

No neutrality? I'm open to suggestions. I've been the only one to come up with an alternative in this thread. It's the other guys who simply are neither listening to logic nor explaining their position.

Quote:

And "Woof woof?" I thought this was a discussion.

Barking mad, right?

dusanyu · Oct 23, 2009, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Bad thread and the "arguments" are even worse this QQ fest needs a lock.

MagmaRed · Oct 23, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I'm done trying to reason with the OP. I've explained it as best I can/will. I'll continue to read this for amusement, but I'm done trying to help. When the ship is sinking, it is better to abandon ship than to try and remove the water. And since I know it will come, the water is coming into the boat by gallons, and the only thing available to remove the water with is a teaspoon.

Reverend Dr · Oct 23, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nechrond

Woof woof. That's what people all said when skills were split between PvE and PvP, too. That turned out to be a surprisingly good solution, too. Woof woof.

Actually that turned out to be a surprisingly bad system that has created a further split between PvE/PvP while also setting the precedent for the modern PvE-only skill and PvE-only versions of skills that have turned every high end PvE zone into a fast farm.